Hollis Transcript

Interview with Hollis Wood (with wife Hilda),
retired Conductor for the CN

Date of Interview: October 23^rd, 2001 in Prince George, BC

Interviewer: Shiloh Durkee
Transcriber: Shiloh Durkee

BEGIN SIDE ONE, TAPE ONE

S.Durkee: This is Shiloh Durkee and we are at the home of Hilda and Hollis Wood at 1189 Douglas St. in Prince George and we’re just going to be talking a little bit to, well probably both of them, about what it was like to work for the CN and some changes they saw in the community of Prince George as they went all. So, one of the first questions I’ll ask you is if you can tell me a bit about your background…birth date, if you feel comfortable, hometown, why you came to Prince George…

Hollis: My background I was born in Brookfield, Prince Edward Island. I got (pause)… and I worked on the farm until I got married in 1949 and 1949, I come out to Prince George; arrived in Prince George in the morning at 8 o’clock; it was rainin’ and what a town. I thought I’d really go back home if I had the money, but I didn’t have the money so that morning I picked up the clothes I needed to go to the bush and I went and worked out in the bush at Willow River in the afternoon. I worked there for two weeks until my wife arrived on the train. And when she arrived, I quit the job in the bush…

S.Durkee: After two weeks?

Hollis: After two weeks, I quit the job in the bush and I found a job on Monday morning, the following Monday morning, and I worked for Right-way cleaners for a year and a half and when I was workin’ for the Right-way cleaners, these guys that I used to deliver clothes to and people, they said “Well, why are you working for the cleaners, why don’t you come and work for the railroad?” so I thought I would try it so I went down and I wanted to hire on as a firemen but they wouldn’t hire me because of my education and they weren’t hiring. So then in March, I hired out in the car department. That’s testin’ the wheels and going in the yard and lookin’ after… [1]

Hilda: What year?

Hollis: That was in ’51; March the 13^th, ’51, I hired out. And I worked in the car department for about a year and three months and I used to talk to some of the brakemen and the brakemen said, “Well, why don’t you come on the road?” so I went home, told the wife I would like to go to work on the road and she said “No you’re not!” cause you’re not staying away from here. I’m not staying alone at night. So, I thought “Well, okay” and can’t go to work on the road. A few days later the guy said, “This is your last chance. You either have to go now or you’re going to lose a whole bunch of turns”. So I come home and told her that they forced me out on the road. Which they didn’t! But uh… (laughing). So that’s what I did. I went out and worked on the road whether she liked it or not but that’s what we did. And so I worked four years as a brakemen on the steam engines of course; some of them steam engines were hot and cold in the wintertime. You’d freeze on one side and burn on the other. But then I, after fours years, I become conductor. I become a conductor in 1956 I think it was.

Hilda: That sounds right.

Hollis: Yeah, ’56 and I worked conductor ‘til my retirement.

S.Durkee: In 1988?

Hollis: In 1988, yup. But I loved working for the railroad and I love my job; that’s one thing about it. With my education, I thought I did pretty good and it was…it was…I loved the job. I just loved working for the railroad. And I liked everything about it. Especially worktrains and switchers. Where you had to work.

S.Durkee: Sorry, what did you say…worktrains and…?

Hollis: And switchers…like switchers, switchin’ the mills. Yeah… Switching mills.

S.Durkee: Okay. Now when you were in Prince Edward Island, did you hear that there was work out in BC?

Hollis: No, I knew there was a guy out here I knew, a young fella. And I wrote to him and he said “Come on out, there’s lots of work out here because the mills, lots of mills”. After we got married…

Hilda: How old you were…

Hollis: Yeah, I was twenty.

S.Durkee: Twenty…mmhmm.

Hilda: I was twenty-one.

Hollis:  Stayed up all the time, sat up all the way out here. No money for anything else so I sat up. Sat up and had my own sandwiches most of the time and arrived here, 8 o’clock in the morning!

S.Durkee: 8 o’clock, you remember that clearly!

Hollis: Oh yeah, raining and, wooden sidewalks, wooden sidewalks and gravel roads, nothing after Vancouver streets! There was nothing.

S.Durkee: Yeah, that must have been a little bit different! Hmmm…so you did then a few different jobs before you settled into being a conductor?

Hollis: Oh yes! I was a brakemen on the trains and rode the engines for years, lots of years. Even when you become a conductor, that don’t mean you’re a conductor. Your seniority, I had to work maybe another ten years before I got to be a regular conductor; at least ten years because it took seniority so…

Hilda: You were on the freight trains.

Hollis: Yup, but...

Hilda: Not passenger trains.

S.Durkee: Right. Well, you were on freight trains, when did passenger trains come in?

Hollis: Passenger trains were always in but I worked passenger trains too yes. I had to because there was no other work. I used to work between here and Jasper and Prince George to Smithers. In them days, we carried lots of freight, lots of freight and we had to unload (pause)… the head end brakemen had to do all that work; unload it, pack it up and even on the East end, going to Jasper, there was lots of mills. Probably forty mills between here and Jasper.  And you worked every place. You only went two or three miles and stopped. And unloaded the stuff.

S.Durkee: You went from brakemen and whatnot and then onto conductor, what were the skills that you had to have to become a conductor?

Hollis: Well, you had to write an exam, an ‘A’ book, what they called an ‘A’ book. That’s to be qualified for a conductor.

S.Durkee: Okay.

Hollis: I wrote that, like four years after I started and I passed it. It was tough but I passed it.

S.Durkee: Is that still how they do that today or…?

Hollis: I…I’m not sure. They train a lot more nowadays. In them days, you didn’t get training like they do now. And uh, they probably have t’, like in between when you hire out, you had to write a book too and have a test and then after six months, you wrote another book. I think they called it a ‘B’ book. And that was after, I think after about six months or so you had to write a ‘B’ book. And of course, you had to pass it or you wouldn’t…they’d say “So long!” (Laughing). [2]

S.Durkee: I get the feel now, after doing a couple of interviews that back when, like the 40s and 50s, you learned a lot more on the job.

Hollis: Oh yes! Well, you did everything. Now, it’s quite a change now. Like I gotta, I got a…

Hilda: We have two sons…

Hollis: son; two sons that work for the railroad; Gary, he’s over thirty years on there and he’s a conductor/engineer now. Like, he was a conductor but you gotta be both. And then I gotta son that forty-two, and he’s over twenty years and he’s an engineer so… [3]

S.Durkee: So, what’s the difference…you were saying conductor/engineer?

Hollis: Well, an engineer’s the one that runs the engine but nowadays that they haven’t got the cabooses, and they only got two guys on the engine, so they make the conductor take his course; go to Winnipeg and take a course and he has t’ be able to run the engine too so…

S.Durkee: Do your boys work for the CN?

Hollis: Yes, they both work for the CN.

S.Durkee: Oh…possible interviewees!

(Laughing)

Hollis: Yeah, yup. Yup.

S.Durkee: You were talking a little bit about the description of the job and crews.  If you were to describe a typical day, what time would you start in the morning…

Hilda: Oh wow…

S.Durkee: …how many days?

Hollis: Well, when I first started, like you always got the poor jobs. That was off the spare board. Like spare board who somebody booked off cause they could book off or book sick. That’s part of our job. And, then you’d go and do uh…you’d always have the dirty end of the stick so you had to ride the engines and switch trains and then you’d get called – you had twenty-four hours a day. I mean, anytime you were home and your rest was up, like you could take twelve hours rest and then after that you’d get called. Could get called anywheres from twenty a’ clock at night ‘til twenty a’ clock the next day, anytime! I mean you had to be available once you were off rest. So… Cause you never knew when somebody was gonna book off. When somebody booked off, it was two o’clock in the morning and you had to take his job.

S.Durkee: Did you find that hard raising a family and whatnot if you didn’t have the set hours and you always had to sort of be on call?

Hollis: Well, it was a little tough but like, I did all my work, I worked lots. I wouldn’t pass up anything and I coached my kids in ball in the summertime and I coached them in hockey in the wintertime and I’d take holidays in the summertime; was to take them to ball diamonds, maybe down to Vancouver or wherever, over on the Island. And the same in the wintertime; when they’d have to go on a tournament, that’s what I’d do, I’d take some holidays and take em’. Yeah, I had lots of time; I did my share with the kids. Of course my wife did a lot of that stuff too. Like, she had to look after them, send them off to school when I wasn’t home.

Hilda: I worked too.

Hollis: She was a schoolteacher so she had to take the boys to the baby-sitter.

S.Durkee: Right, right.

Hollis: Yup.

S.Durkee: Working, do you recall your wages when you started and when you ended?

Hollis and Hilda: (Laughing)

Hollis: Oooohhh yes! I’ll tell ya! When I first started on the car department, I got a dollar forty-seven an hour and that one or two cents was for punching the clock. You had to punch the clock when you went to work and punch the clock when you left. And that is what it was. And I think that when I went brakin’, I’m sure it was eleven…about eleven dollars a hundred – a hundred miles.

S.Durkee: Oh right, okay.

Hollis: When you went a hundred miles, you got eleven dollars. It kept going up. Now it’s probably a hundred and somethin’ an hour. A hundred miles. But uh, also, there’s a…you got, like when I started, if you were twelve and a half miles an hour, that’s what you got. So that’s how they would work it, twelve and a half miles per hour.

S.Durkee: Okay. So is that considered good pay?

Hollis: Well, I thought it was good. I thought it was very good, yeah. But it wasn’t that much work. None of the regular guys would book off for a Christmas cheque. So you got on the first of December ‘til the fourteenth of December, those guys…cause that’s when you got your cheque at then end; that was two weeks later when you got it. All those guys would work all the time so I had a heck of a time trying to make a Christmas cheque. Probably get two trips so it wouldn’t be very much! Not very much in them days.

S.Durkee: So you’d have to plan ahead for Christmas because you knew you wouldn’t be working for Christmas!

Hollis: Oh yes! Yup, yup.

S.Durkee: (Drinking) Excuse me…so when you were on the train, the train stopped and you went from Jasper all the way up to Smithers; did you continue on?

Hollis: No. You worked out of here. My home terminal was Prince George. And if I worked the passenger train, I worked from Prince George to Smithers. And then you’d stay there overnight and come back the next day. And if you’re going the other way, that was all-night work down to Jasper cause you’d leave here in the evenin’ and you’d stay in Jasper all day and then come back at night again. So it mostly night work on the passenger train.

S.Durkee: You stopped at all the little towns along the East line like Penny?

Hollis: Yeah, little stations. Lots of stations. And lots of little places in between stations where they used to have sawmills or a little place to unload, if they want their groceries or whatever or a piece of machinery you know? Cause something broke down so they phoned in and we’d deliver at night so they have the next day.

S.Durkee: So you’ve definitely seen a lot of changes because now when you go out to Penny or Sinclair Mills or whatnot, there’s nothing there but you were there when there was…

Hollis: Oh yeah. It was just boomin’ them days when I come here. When I started on the railroad, (chuckle), it was lots of places. Just it’s hard to believe yup.

S.Durkee: Just little mini boomtowns.

Hollis: And lots of like…when I first started, like we had two on the caboose and then there was an engineer and a fireman and a head-end brakeman. And if you had over them days, if you had over fifty-nine cars, then you had to have another brakemen so sometimes there was three brakemen on the same train; a conductor, an engineer and a fireman.

S.Durkee: And it’s not like that now?

Hollis: No, there’s only two on the trains now!

S.Durkee: Considering that there’s only two, do they have more work ahead of them, or was it better when…

Hollis: Well nowadays, it’s just the train goes from here to there. I mean, you hardly ever have to stop and sometimes switch mills like we used to have to. They go from here to McBride and then they get off and somebody else, the other crew from Jasper takes over or the other way, they go from Prince George to Smithers.  You get two subs now; they run two subs. I get off before they took the cabooses off. See, the cabooses were off in 1988, so I was lucky. I didn’t have to ride the engines anymore; I still had my little caboose when I retired, yup! (Laughing)

S.Durkee: I didn’t realize cabooses were gone!

Hollis: Oh they’ve been gone, oh my goodness! Yeah, they’ve been gone for probably five years at least, oh more than that probably. I think just after I retired they started going so they’ve been gone maybe ten years. No cabooses on the trains, they just have little red blocks on that tail end and that tells ya everything; that’ll tell ya the tail end of the train now instead of the caboose. Yup.

S.Durkee: I can’t believe I didn’t know that!

Hollis: No?

(The following fifteen seconds were edited out as this was where we looked at pictures and discussed other names of people that worked for the CN so Hollis and Hilda felt more comfortable with this not being recorded hence, the change in subject).

S.Durkee: I’m interested in knowing who was all working there; what kind of ethnic groups did you have? Was there a lot of Europeans or was it mostly just Canadians? Do you remember?

Hollis: Well, like on the, out on the road like for section men, there was a lot of foreign people on them; like a lotta’ Italians. Oh yes, lots of Italians. And I become good friends with lots of them because, you know, I seen them all the time and I was on lots of work trains so they were out on the line, yeah. But then there was not that many…mostly was Italians you know. Lotta’ Italians.

S.Durkee: When I do my readings, I come across that there was a lot of Asian labour…

Hollis: Well, yes, yes, that’s what it was.

S.Durkee: I’ve been learning more that it’s a lot of Europeans.

Hollis: Yeah, there was. But on like working the trains like I did, like on the road, there wasn’t very many of them. There was the odd one but not very many. There was mostly like English, French, the odd Frenchmen and stuff like that.

S.Durkee: Doing the work that you were doing?

Hollis: Yeah, on the road. Like on the road, brakemen, and conductors or engineers and firemen.

S.Durkee: And were there any women working out on the…

Hollis: They started. They started just before, a few years before I retired. We had ladies…I had a lady out on the work train a couple of times out on work trains. Of course, I could tell ya some stories but not on that (pointing to recorder). Because, like out on the work trains when you had no facilities, like you know, bathrooms and toilets and stuff like that, so if you wanted to go to the bathroom, you had to find a tree or go in the bush. So, one girl turned me in because she didn’t like going in the bushes and so I had to go for a statement because she didn’t like it. But I… I got out of it.

(Laughing)

S.Durkee: Oh, what was she expecting?

Hollis: She was expecting runnin’ water I guess! (Laughing)  No, no she didn’t. See, on those cabooses that we got now, we had bathrooms in them and we had water but if you’re stayin’ out in the country, you run out of water. So rather than use the toilets, we used the bush!  Well, because you were too far away from going for water and to fill them up again. So that’s…. But uh, some of them were good workers. There were good workers.

S.Durkee: It must’ve been different like when the ladies started coming in?

Hollis: Yeah, well they become engineers you know. There’s some engineers; lady engineers now. There’s at least a couple that used to work with me that are engineers now.

(Pause)

Hollis: I didn’t think it was a place for a lady but I wasn’t the head of it; I didn’t do the hiring. No, I didn’t think ladies should be out on the road.

S.Durkee: No?

Hollis: No, I didn’t really think…I thought it was…it just wasn’t, I don’t know, what would you say? What’s the word? Wasn’t uh…for having the ladies out on the road…what Mother? What’s the word? (Pause) Whatever.

Hilda: Tell her the story about the…

Hollis: I told her the story about the bathroom…

S.Durkee: Yup!

(Laughing)

Hollis: …the girl when she turned me in (chuckling) for not lettin’ her use the bathroom.

S.Durkee: Well, you could’ve told her either she’s going to drink water and have food cooked or go to the bathroom!

Hollis: Well, we had gangs out there that fed you most of the time. Like, if you’re workin’ out there, there was a gang; usually a gang is what fixed the track or you were workin’ with them and they always had a cook. So you could go to them, when we tied up at night, we tied up where they were and that’s where we stayed most of the time.

S.Durkee: That sounds similar to a forestry camp…

Hollis: Yup, yup. She doesn’t want to see that (referring to pictures Hilda brought out of Hollis in his uniform).

S.Durkee: Oh yes!

(Everyone laughing)

S.Durkee: Oh…C.N.R. trainmen’s hat on!

(More laughing)

Hilda: We have that in the bedroom in uniform.

Hollis: Yeah…

S.Durkee: Thinking back, what would be the best memory, or memories, of working for the railway? You were saying you loved it; what were some of the things that were just…

Hollis: Well, like I enjoyed working, like switching mills, and picking up lumber and you know switching the mills and picking up their lumber cars when they’re loaded. And I liked work trains because you were doing somethin’ all the time; you were busy all the time. So, I was in ballast trains and when they built this…

S.Durkee: Ballast trains sorry?

Hollis: Well, gravel or crushed rock that you put on the track to ballast the tracks or stay stable and when they first opened up with the coal trains, I worked on all of that fixing up the tracks and widenin’ the right-of-ways and buildin’ longer tracks so they could get longer trains. I worked on all that.

S.Durkee: When did the coal trains come in?

Hollis: Oohhh, I don’t know. It must’ve been in the 80s some…noooo! Oh, musta’ been seventy, in the late 70s or early 80s; wouldn’t be any later than the 80s. It must’ve… it must’ve been the 80s eh? When the coal trains come in? (Pause) Yeah, when they started and then they…I’m not sure. When was uh, when was the coalmines going up there at Chetwynd?  Not Chetwynd, at Tumbler Ridge.

S.Durkee: Oookay, yeah. So that….

Hollis: Tumbler Ridge.

S.Durkee: Yeah… Late 70s, early 80s.

Hollis: Yeah. I thought it would be early 80s or just right on 80s probably. I forget how long I worked on the coal trains. Couldn’t of been that long, maybe (pause)…coulda’ been ’80, ’81,’82 in around there I would think.

S.Durkee: Don’t some of the trains (coal) come out of Prince Rupert as well today with…?

Hollis: Coal empties come this way. The grain and the wheat goes to Rupert and then they bring the empties back and the coal trains come out at Tumbler Ridge. They come down here on the BCR and then they, or we, take them from here to Rupert. And when they’re emptied up there, then they come back and they go back down to the BCR, the BC Railroad.  We got an interchange track, that’s interchange with the BCR, so we can go over onto their track with the train but we can’t leave the yards or anything.

S.Durkee: Was there ever any competition between the BCR and the CN?

Hollis: In what way?

(Pause)

Hollis: We all got along because they use to…oh yeah, we get along good because they come over and picked up their trains, you know, their empties and they brought their coal trains in here and now, we go over - we went over there and took the lumber cars that were loaded over there that went east so we went over and got them and we took them east so…. No there was no hard feelings I don’t think.

S.Durkee: So you sort of worked in conjunction; you helped each other.

Hollis: Oh yes…yeah.

S.Durkee: Now thinking back, what were some of the worst memories working?

Hollis: Well, I been in a couple of derailments.

S.Durkee: You have?

Hollis: Yes. I remember one time, I don’t know what year it was, we hit a moose a mile east of Penny and we put about thirty cars in the ditch at the east switch at Penny and of course they made us stay out there; we were out there for two weeks and it snow everyday. And it was awful; it was terrible! And after about two or three days when you have the same clothes you left home with (laughing), your stockings would be smellin’ and I’d get a hold of home and get some clothes sent out cause you know, you got the same clothes as you left with and after two or three days, it wasn’t very good around there.

S.Durkee: I can imagine!

Hollis: It was a little smelly! Yeah…but uh, lots of times and like I can’t eat moose meat anymore because we use to hit moose and then we’d have to dig ‘em out from underneath the front of the engines or underneath the cars…smell… Once in awhile I used to puke, that’s how bad it…

Hilda: Never ate moose meat, nope.

Hollis: So I never would eat moose meat.

S.Durkee: Were moose the biggest cause of derailment?

Hollis: Oh yes! In the wintertime ‘specially. When the snow was built up on the sides, there’s nowhere to hit them, there was nowhere to go. And one time, comin’ west out of McBride… Dome Creek, between Dome Creek and the previous station, we hit eight moose; killed eight moose within one mile. But we were going pretty good speed so we knocked right flat. Yup…threw them off the right-of-way. Yeah, lots of times derailments, I’ve been on lots of derailments.

S.Durkee: That would be truly scary to be on a derailment.

Hilda: The time you hurt your back…

Hollis: We were on a train one time and you know what a hook is to lift the cars up and put them on the track? So we had a hook, we got a hook out from Jasper, so we picked it up in McBride, we come out to Mile 50 on the Fraser sub and about the first lift, they didn’t tie it down, it tipped over and it was a steam one. It was scary; that was scary. That was a scary moment. The guy, he got out before he was getting’ hurt but uh…the hook, the big hook went over because they didn’t put the…tie ‘em down good enough. They said “we just make it a little lift see” and without tying it down, it went over. That was scary.

S.Durkee: Oh, I can imagine.

Hilda: There’s the time you tore your pant leg…

Hollis: Oh, well I don’t think she wants to know that.

S.Durkee: Oh no, I do. I’m interested!

Hollis: We were on a planer mill and they have ramps and the cars go right up against the ramps so one day, when I…we were using the radios, we use to use radios to talk to the engineer, when to go ahead so I said “it’s okay to go now” so we took off and I’m between the car and the platform. Well, it tore a brand new pair of pants off and I just held on because I should’ve been killed. I should’ve been right underneath because there’s no room! I don’t know how; the cars were swayin’ enough that it just didn’t go under. That was scary. And I fell off the top of a boxcar once. That was scary.

Hilda: I never heard that.

S.Durkee: What were you doing up there?

Hollis: Well, I was riding the car with the brake. See uh, when you kick a car and you want it to stop at a certain place, so what they did was kick the car but they forgot the line was switched and it went in and hit another car and I didn’t know it was in there. Well, I didn’t know I was goin’ in there so it hit so I fell all the way from the top to the bottom.

Hilda: Wintertime?

Hollis: Nope.

Hilda: Christ, I’d didn’t know that.

(Chuckling)

Hollis: Well, there was some scary times, yeah.

S.Durkee: I can imagine. Were you there, well I guess maybe, when they went from steam to diesel?

Hollis: Yup!

S.Durkee: When did that take place?

Hollis: Oh, I think it must’ve been in about sixty….oh, let’s see…hired ’54…must’ve been early, around sixties, 1960 I think the diesels come in. Boy, that was great!

S.Durkee: Was it? Why?

Hollis: Ooohh! That was just like sitting in the front room rather than ridin’ those old steam engines.

END OF SIDE ONE, TAPE ONE, BEGIN SIDE TWO

Hollis: …yeah, well, they were still there in ’57 I think…

Hilda: Yeah, well this book may not be true (Hilda was referring to a reference in the book “A Penny for Your Thoughts” that said diesel engines went out in 1957).

Hollis: No. (Pause) Here, I’ll take that out of your way (referring to some of his CN mementos sitting in front of me).

(The following discussion took place as we looked through some of his pictures and as Hollis showed me his conductor’s uniform. I did not want to turn off the recorder in case he had some interesting information or anecdotes that would be lost otherwise).

S.Durkee: Oh no, I like it (laughing). Something about steam locomotives…

Hilda: They discontinued in ’57 but…

S.Durkee: Oh, but they were still in use.

Hilda: I don’t know.

Hollis: I’ll show her one of my old uniforms.

(Laughing)

Hollis: (returning from finding more CN keepsakes)… found the ticket books.  You can see that’s from the east end. That shows the stations.

Hilda: East is where McBride is.

S.Durkee: Okay.

Hollis: You had to punch out the numbers what the price was and then one was for the company and once was for you.

S.Durkee: What year is what this would’ve been from? (Referring to very old ticket books).

Hollis: Oh my goodness! Hilda: Oh god, we don’t know.

Hollis: There’s no year on those things.

Hilda: …should’ve had all this stuff lined up before you come! (Laughing)

Hollis: I haven’t worked passenger train since about ’75. I had two or three pair of pants because they were great pants. They were heavy. They wear forever.

Hilda: And nice buttons!

S.Durkee: Yes!

Hilda: You had your cap; where’s your cap?

Hollis: Oh, she don’t wanna see that thing! (Laughing)

S.Durkee: What do they wear today?

Hollis: They wear uniforms but they’re not that heavy.  And they’re a different colour cause it’s VIA rail now; see it’s not CN that runs it, it’s VIA rail.

S.Durkee: Right. And that was in the late 70s wasn’t it that VIA came in about?

Hollis: Yup. Yeah, VIA rail and they got their own crews. They are actually CN guys but the got their…they went over to VIA… to work for VIA. So, actually it’s a different union.  See, anybody that wanted to go, if they had the seniority, they could go over and work for VIA, which a lot of guys did.

S.Durkee: What drew them over to VIA?

Hollis: Well, cause it was passenger train if they liked working passenger train. And they figured they had better seniority over there and they could work at better jobs like then freight or whatever they worked on.

S.Durkee: Right. But you preferred to stay. Did you have a chance to go to VIA?

Hollis: Oh yeah…I didn’t want to; no, I didn’t like passenger trains. I only worked them because I had to.

S.Durkee: Right. I don’t see them wearing outfits like that today! (Referring to a picture Hilda showed me of Hollis’ last trip as a conductor on a caboose).

Hollis: No! (Laughing) That material is just unbelievable.

Hilda: That was taken two years ago when my girlfriend was here for our anniversary but he should’ve had different pants on.

Hollis: Well, I said, “Just take the top” and of course they showed my jeans; I didn’t bother putting the pants on!

S.Durkee: That’s ok; you get a pretty good idea of what it looks like. You’ve been in Prince George a long time not just working on the railway but uh, what were some of the most significant changes at work and in the community that you remember, that stands out?

Hollis: Well, at work I think when the coal trains and that started comin’ in, that was the biggest improvement around here. Like, we had better, bigger rails and bigger units and it was, everything was better like better rails and it then they put in the signals for us which was better too. We run by signals, not by orders.

S.Durkee: Okay.

Hollis: But the changes here, the big changes is when the pulp mills come in because this place just grew unbelievable! Cause when I come, there was only about five-thousand people here so…(Pause)

S.Durkee: Did you sort of see it as a railway town when you came in or did you see it as a…

Hollis: Not really.

S.Durkee: lumber town?

Hollis and Hilda: A lumber town.

Hollis: More so. Like, we lived out in South Fort George and there was a fireman come up from Jasper to work as a firemen up here, out of here on a work train so I got to know him and then he said, “Why don’t you hire out on the railroad?” and I said, “I wouldn’t get up at 4 o’clock in the morning and go to work like you are!”.  I said “No! I would never…no, that’s not for me” so I just stayed at my job and when I, like, when I started working for Right-way Cleaners and meetin’ all these different railroaders and they kept after me and then there was railroaders stayed in the same place as we did and he got after me. He said, “Aw, come and hire out in the car department” so that’s what I did; I hired out in the car department first. Then I got talkin’ to the brakemen and conductors and they said, “Oh, you better come on the road” cause I get along with them pretty good.

S.Durkee: Did you always feel that this form of employment was secure? Did you ever feel in danger of losing your job?

Hollis: Well, not really. As long as you did your job, I don’t think you’d ever lose it. You know, I always liked my job so I always did my job to the best of my ability.

Hilda: And you asked about hours and days off, well, there’s no such a thing. He didn’t work from Monday to Friday, eight-to-five.

Hollis: When I first started on the road, I worked Christmases on the road. My wife…I remember the first Christmas, was it the first Christmas?

Hilda: No, that was a long time ago.

Hollis: Second Christmas? No…second Christmas on the railroad, I took you out to Upper Fraser and that’s where she stayed while on the train I was on; a weigh-freight so…and that was on a day before Christmas and of course, we come back Christmas Day and picked her up again at Upper Fraser the next day. Do you remember that? (Laughing)

Hilda: I remember.

Hollis: Oh yeah, you always worked holidays and that because that’s when the other older guys with seniority would book off, is when the holidays… So, you had to work them days like New Year’s Day; don’t ever think of goin’ to the New Year’s party because you’re going to work cause if you wanna make a dollar, you gotta go to work.

Hilda: The phone would ring…

Hollis: I would go to work…

Hilda: “Is Hollis there? Woody there?” “What’dya want?” “A.S.A.P.”

Hollis: As soon as possible. A.S.A.P was “As soon as possible”. Get down here as soon as possible.

Hilda: Pack your bags. A derailment or…

Hollis: If somebody booked off at the last minute or…

Hilda: A.S.A.P.! SAP!

S.Durkee: And you just had to be there.

Hilda: Could’ve said no but…

Hollis: Course ya have to…most of those jobs you had to take somethin’ to eat so you had to get your grub ready for ya so you’d have to make sandwiches or put stuff together.

S.Durkee: Right.

Hollis: Get your coffee ready cause you didn’t have…like these steam engines now, not the steam engines but the diesel engines, they got all coffee pots in them and fridges; they got a fridge, and toilet, bathrooms, toilet like…

S.Durkee: Like all the comforts of home!

Hollis: Oh yeah! All the comforts they have them in the diesels. Yup, it was quite a change. But, you get up, go to work in a caboose in the wintertime when it was 40 below and no fires in them cabooses, you had to go light your fire and get the kettle on for the conductors so they’d be happy when they finally got to the caboose (chuckling). Yeah, they use to be cold; the water would be frozen on the stove, tanks would be frozen…

S.Durkee: It’s good that you have such positive memories of it; it sounds like nothing I’ve ever done!

Hollis: (Chuckling) No, it’s different, but I enjoyed it so…

S.Durkee: Now that you’re retired, are you still active down at the Railway Museum or anything or does that still hold interest or…?

Hollis: Not really, no. I haven’t had much to do…I go to our Pensioner’s meetings, yeah, we’ve got Pensioner’s meetings. But that’s not like when I first retired; we used to have a hundred at our Christmas party and now I think it’s down to about forty or fifty cause you know, there’s not that many workers anymore; some have moved out of town and whatever.

Hilda: Where did they have the picnic and family day? Down at the…

Hollis: Yeah. Yeah, well they have a family day now at the Railway. I think it’s the union or company that puts it on.

Hilda: It was there. We (indecipherable) at that door; where we got in free. 

Hollis: Yup. In the old, at the railway museum, we’ve been down to them. Meet the old, some of the young fellas and some of the older guys! You know, a get-together.

Hilda: And children and grandchildren. Hotdogs and burgers…

S.Durkee: You were telling me that some of your sons are involved (in the railway), what do you think drew them to working for the railway?

Hollis: Well, I guess it was, you know, get them a job; it was good pay so why not? It’s good pay…

S.Durkee: If you were still working there today, do you feel it is as secure of an employment as it used to be or do you feel you had it better?

Hollis: Oh, I think it’s pretty secure; I would say it is yeah. There’s not that many working, there’s lots of people, guys that hired out a few years ago are not workin’ cause there’s not near as many people, not even a quarter, workin’ now what was workin’ when I retired. So, there’s only two on a train where one time there was four or five and the trains are longer now. Like my son come out of McBride here not too long ago with one hundred and ninety cars so (pause)…where we used to have…when I first started, there was never any more than fifty-nine and then when I retired, it used to be around a hundred. But now, they just fill ‘em right out, yup.

S.Durkee: Hmmm…so there have been changes?

Hollis: Oh! Big changes now. No, I wouldn’t wanna be on them.

S.Durkee: No?

Hollis: No, no. Too big of a change for me. But I think they like their job. I think they do (pause)…cause the oldest one there is just about ready to retire. I’m sure he will retire in another three years when he becomes fifty-five for sure. Like I said, when you get thirty-five years, you got your pensions paid up so… And uh, your age and your years of service, they add up to eighty-five you can retire as long as your fifty-five.

Hilda: That’s right.

Hollis: So fifty-five and thirty-five is eighty-five so that’s…

Hilda: Ninety.

Hollis: …you can retire. Fifty-five and thirty-five, you got well into it.

S.Durkee: …it sounds like the railway took care of their employees?

Hollis: I think they did, yeah I think they…and they’re doin’ a great job now.  A lot of it is the unions probably are strong and they’re helping us old pensioner’s, the older guys out there pension-bound. They’re doin’ pretty good for us. So, you gotta give credit to the people that are workin’ now. Rather than getting’ a raise, they’re trying to work on getting’ better pensions.

Hilda: And benefits.

Hilda: Like see, when I retired I retired with my full pension but my wife, if anything happens to me, she only gets fifty percent. But now they get – if anything happens to me, she’ll get sixty percent of my pension and now I hear they’re workin’ on a hundred percent so you know? They’re workin’ on things. We know there’s lots of money in our pension fund (laughing).

S.Durkee: Now there was a union when you started?

Hilda: Oh yeah, oh yeah….yup, oh yeah, you had to pay union dues and like for quite a few years, I had out-of-service dues you know? Like if you get pulled out of service you paid a premium so if you got pulled out of service, you would get paid while you were off. But I never collected it so I don’t whether ever worked or not.

S.Durkee: Why?

Hollis: I was never really out of service so…

Hilda: We never had um…did we have medical?

Hollis: Yeah, yeah…medical and everything.

Hilda: Only got dental before after Blair was born; he was born in ’69.

Hollis: Yeah, well it was a long time before we got that stuff but unions worked on that.

S.Durkee: So, today…

Hilda: No, we don’t have any. When you retire, you don’t have any medical or dental on the railroad.

Hollis: No they don’t. We’re not like the BCR; the BCR, they have better a pension plan than we have cause they’re paid. You know, their pension is way better. Like, I have to pay my own medical now cause after I retired, you don’t get that. Government employees do! But we don’t, no.  I’ve often been mad about that because I figured they should’ve got that rather going for higher wages lots of times; got something for…(Pause)

S.Durkee: Thinking ahead.

Hollis: Yeah! Thinking ahead more so…

Hilda: And the only one of the four that benefited from the dental was the youngest one.

Hollis: Yeah.

S.Durkee: So you went almost, oh you were saying…’51 to eighty…so you went almost…sixty-nine… Wow, almost 20 years without that.

Hollis: Yup.

Hilda: Paid for it for them.

S.Durkee: And the BCR does that?

Hollis: Yeah, the BCR gets their medical paid for and you know, not only the medical, I’m sure they get the teeth and that…

Hilda: The dental.

Hollis:…and dental and probably glasses too.

S.Durkee: Right. Now if there was ever problem, if you were upset about something, was it easy to go the head of the union?

Hollis: Yeah, your General Chairman and I was that, I was the Chairman of the union here for a couple of years. I went to Winnipeg once for the work on our contract.

S.Durkee: Was that an elected position?

Hollis: Yeah, yeah.

S.Durkee: Was that in the later years?

Hollis: No, that was quite a few years ago. That’s twenty-nine years Mother? Lisa was how old? She was a baby.

Hilda: That was ’72; that’s our granddaughter.

Hollis: I think she was about three years old so it’d be about twenty-five years ago. (Pause) But lots of people would phone you in the middle of the night because somethin’s going wrong so I didn’t care for that. Never into trouble; into trouble and they wanted help so they phone you in the middle of the night sometimes, yeah.  Wasn’t my piece of cake.

Hilda: We still have the phone in the bedroom.

(Laughing)

S.Durkee: Still use to that! Oh good…so is there anything else or any other topic that we haven’t discussed that you feel that we…(pause). I know that there’s so much that you could offer…

Hollis: Oh, there’s lots! You keep thinkin’ you know? You could think of lots of things but you have to get them goin’.

S.Durkee: So, that concludes our interview with Hollis and Hilda Wood, which took place on October 23^rd at their home. Thank you.

END OF INTERVIEW

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